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Topic for Debate
 
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
You are slave. You are a slave.
You are slave. Open your ears. And vibrate this in your heads: you are slave. Would you believe? Maybe you will become furious, "hah I a slave...are you alright?" But self-critise and reflect on a debate below. Truth is always bitter. In Hindi it is said. "Bachhe..such humesha kudwa hota hai"

What is identity of architects outside architectural field/world in third world countries especially? Are we now becoming more slaves to the grind, and whipping sticks of developers? Why we fear to go against market forces? Some buildings, monuments will give identity. OK, good, but what is the identity of architects? Of slaves? And if you want to live without identity. Then why dont we/you say we are girl if you are boy and say I am boy if you are really a girl. Boys wear sarees, and such acessories, because you care about identity!

In Christianity, the cross is the symbol. The shape of mosques dome, secular art in it. gives identity. Similarly each one tries to represent a group, i.e, to gain sense of security and identity, isn't it? It does'nt matter for architects or non-architects. This is fact. When the whole unwinding process of the world is fast-forward, it takes a subtle combination of intelligence and sensitivity to spin continousness and constancy into architecture fabric. Whether we agree or not we now study in schools, because to gain some sort of security via money and then also try to gain self-identity. In reality we still feel emptiness within. Speak the truth to youself. If you want to say to others you will hide and say I am happy, and boast high. So this debate is what you have to start with yourself and if you have done that then only enter this forum.

But since the world is very fast-forward you will say that no one's identity can stay longer except exceptions. A meagre one. Should we have identity at all is first question? And then we can proceed to debate on architects as slaves. So do your home-work. Best wishes to become free. Indians who wanted freedom, from slavery, gave a slogan to the British unitedly "Quit India". Any slogan for all the slaves? Stark enough but I had to because such [truth] hamesha kudwa hota hai.

I used some Hindi words for identity, but is it identity? So more proceedings: what is real idea of identity, are we missing it? and foolishly claiming identity and understanding it which actually is like an illusion. We are born and die without bringing or taking anything as it apparently seems.

So identity in a twist? Sure enough, debates are for twist to give idenity to themselves! And this forum does it. "Na kuch lena na kuch dena nikal pade sar utha kar debate karne with others, not with self." Because identity boss?


Identity: Student, Rizvi College of Architecture.
Identity before 8 yrs: inner wheel school student.
So is there a real identity..it changes.. and after death what u will say "I am a ghost" Find for your own identity as I said it is debate for youself. I was unable to connect to net so previous message was not full y written. I agree to Dushyant. I wanted just friends to reflect that they have to be true to thenselves. 90% of people don't tell the truth to themselves and are joyless. I mean also to say the purpose of life is the life of purpose. Nothing to clobber in terms of identity. Self-reflection is key. If we do that however hell the world becomes we will stay equipoised isn't it? Thanks Dushyant to tell 10% factor.

With love,
Manish
Best wishes,
Manish
Manish Desai
Responses
 
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
No. Getting once concepts approved needs lot of pations and preservance, so hang on, one more advice I had as a student from my v.senior teacher that design is only 10% in architecture. The rest factores like contacts, ability to persue, etc.
Dushyant Nathwani
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
If you don't want to have any identity so you are free!

As many people deny theer identity and cry: "I'm nothing, I belong to nowhere !"
Nasim Iranmanesh
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
The problem is if you don't have identity you are not free and you will cry and even if you live with identity then also you will not be free and cry. The purpose of life is life of purpose and once you do that you have got an identity which is self-fulfilling, like full of bliss to you however absurd it may be to others. We have not to live for sake of pleasing others and not pleasing ourselves. Deep down then it will hurt like a thorn even though you have rose... So it's to self-reflection and not a matter of identity versus crying. It's a debate for self, however at superficial level or some intelligence level can be done here. But caution live life of legacy. Otherwise this forum is useless, life is useless, and now or later we will realise this... So better to wake up early, as I said, self-reflection is key.

Sorry if harsh..It's for me too. And then for us debating over architects are slave, or they are genious will seem trifle over the factor which surely we ourselves have to search deep within us. Sounds philosophical but it's the key.

Regards,
Manish Desai
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
India is rising for a strong identity in this world and the signs are seen. But this is also largely due to knowledge sector. So if knowledge is thrown in dustbin and greed for money or survival instinct becomes predominant behavior as seen in india then yes, I agree we can be called slaves. But I believe this picture will soon turn because the students are now competitive and giving interests in issues of sustainability, inclusion. But really this is something to be really contemplated, as what is your identity if you are not an architect? Just architecture is not everything.
Also about 90 percentage people believe of slavery, yes this is true in India, but may be out of those 90 percentage may be noone stands out to say that, somehow they stay in illusion of themselves being happy, while they are not. A good point to self-realise, I agree, Manish.

Vaibhav (CEPT, Amdavad)
Vaibhav Parikh
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
It is as Epictetus said so many years ago: 'No man is FREE who is not a master of himself'

just reflecting...!
Manish Desai
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
Well, it's correct that we (architects) are slaves may be that is one aspect of it in real since we design for the people we have to think about them... Well you can not sell ice in the poles... It's like that.
Subher Kher
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
there is no question of calling an architect slave. if he works for others than he is described as slave than what are doctors engineers?
architect is a creator like brhma. he can create by implying his own ideas.
Rajendra Gehlot
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
i refuse to look at anybody as a slave!

from the time humans decided on community living, they started dividing labour so that people could do things better. this concept has remained constant throughout civilization and so it remains true even today.

each one of us (not only architects) has to contribute to the society in a whatever they are good at. i dont see this as slavery but a contribution for the betterment of society.

the problem occurs when our field of contribution is chosen, not by our instincts or interests, but by pressure or monetary constraints. as a result many people feel that they are doing jobs in order to earn money and survive.

i dont see architecture as a job. every morning when i wake up, i am itching to get to the drafting board. (although we do working drawings on comp, all designing is done on paper simply because thats the way i like it!)

doubts about oneself and the society come only when we are not in deep synchronisation with what we are doing. unfortunately for society, many people seem to be falling into this trap.

that is one of the reasons why we need to look at our education system...
but that is a wholly different can of worms and hence doesnt belong in this post.
Vishwanath Kashikar
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
Vishwaneth,

"i dont see architecture as a job. every morning when i wake up, i am itching to get to the drafting board. (although we do working drawings on comp, all designing is done on paper simply because thats the way i like it!) "

How lucky are you! Few can say that they are doing something they love, and few can say that there job is not for monetary purpouses! It is a rarity that people can say that they are fulfilling their vocation(good for you, Vishwaneth) but at the same time it is individual choices which lead to our destinies! If people feel like slaves, it is your choices which lead upto it and it is your choice to remain as one! I say whatever you do, do it well. If slavery is your destiny, so it will be and if slavery is not your destiny, so it will be!

Take Care,
Abdul Basit Mukri
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
Dear all
I Agree with Vishwanath Kashikar, in his opinion about refusing considering participating in society as slavery ,it is part of why we where born, and how can we contribute in developing our community, expressing loyalty and grateful, so being an architect is great responsibility, as he effects way of life and thinking in his community.
Searching for identity is the key for finding a purpose for life,its'n a call for selfishness ,cause finding your identity requires great capability of being unselfish.
Mai Hawas
Mai Hawas
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
dear abdul,
thanks for the kind words.sometimes, i do feel lucky that i enjoy working so much, more so when i see some others around me who are not so happy.

i just wish that everyone could get to do what they want. everyone has some skills and interests and if only we could find a way to let everyone do what they want...
Vishwanath Kashikar
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
Architects can see and smile: people are walking around in the environment built by them; acting psychologically as planned; using the functionality asbuilt. So everybody is following his instruction automatically, unknowingly.

Why is the architect a slave? Rather all the people in the world are following the architect's instructions, moving everywhere according to architects decisions. They are all the slaves of architects.
Mohammad Tauheed
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
now, that is the other extreme!

many environment behaviour theories have agonised over whether an architect and consequently the built environment can control peoples actions.

i think most of them finally conclude that although the built environment can provide for the occurrence of certain activities, they can never make them happen.

in this light i would refrain from saying that an architect is god/master and can see people following his/her commands!
Vishwanath Kashikar
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
Vishwanath-remember Winston Churchill's famous dictum: "We shape our buildings, then our buildings shape us."
Shiraz Allibhai
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
I see architects as proposers of ideas and I see there clients as the decision makers. As much as the architect believes he/she is changing mans world through their designs, it is all dependant on politics, economics and the social pulse of the peolple. Lets take North America as an example, the politics are of a secular nature, economics is of a capitilistic nature and the social pulse is of a worldly nature. So it is that you see the buildings placed up, reflecting this so. Sure the architects will create something unique but the buildings will reflect a secular, capitalistic, and worldly nature. Just look and see, and you will know what I mean!

The question that needs to be asked, is, who does the architect take into consideration when designing? Is it the client, the people, their own fancies, or to evoke meaning in there structures? Answering these questions will allow you to understand, where the architect stands, if he/she is a slave or not!

Dear Shiraz,

"We shape our buildings, then our buildings shape us."

I can only partially beleive this statement. Not to long ago I had gone through Cleveland and we had passed through this neighbourhood which was a ghetto. The people in that area lived in poverty but if you were to observe the structures you would have thought otherwise. The homes were of a wealthy nature, beautiful architectural features, a posh area(atleast at one time). It made me wonder how such an area became a ghetto, and why people continue to live in there as a ghetto. Politics, economics were the first thing that came in mind. It just shows that a structure can be designed for intended result but if circumstances permit this could change.
Abdul Basit Mukri
The identity of architects is as slaves. 90 % may believe so, I don't, do you?
Manish, salaam!

You are standing upon the underlying issues of architecture as intercultural metacommunication!

Slaves to fashion maybe... Try to keep them away from the drafting table....

If you are a slave, design buildings friendly to freedom!

ma salemah!
Anthony Stewart
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